13 February, 2012

Views on provocative Real Catholic TV station anger Detroit archdiocese and others | Detroit Free Press | freep.com

Views on provocative Real Catholic TV station anger Detroit archdiocese and others | Detroit Free Press | freep.com

14 comments:

  1. The Diocese only furthers his points about a liberal conspiracy within to destroy orthodox catholicism with this demand that he stop calling his ministry Catholic. They fail to site a single breach of Catholic theology or heresy in his material yet they rail against him and have taken this unprecedented move against him.
    Meanwhile we have other media outlets under the "catholic" banner that have never faced the wrath of an angry bishop demanding they drop their use of the name yet they openly rebel against the magisterial teachings of the church. Here are just a few.

    Catholics for Choice
    Catholics for Marriage Equality
    National Catholic Reporter
    Roman Catholic Women Priests

    I'll admit Mr. Voris' presentations will win few converts from outside the church with his teaching style. But I think he can do much to help win back the lukewarm Catholic, the poorly catechized or the ones confused about the faith after a steady bombardment of anti catholic propaganda in media and from other faith groups.

    God Bless his ministry.
    Paul

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  2. Jesus had no plans to "nice" us into heaven. You don't fight evil with pom poms.

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  3. I agree Lisa.
    I listen to the Vortex often and its refreshing to hear unvarnished, uncompromising Catholic teachings being preached, even if it comes from a lay person. I attend mass weekly and RARELY do you ever hear a priest venture boldly into topics that might delve into the sinful behaviours of many of us sitting in the pews or the culture in general for fear of offending. In fairness, this is not all Priests but a good portion of them. Christ didn't suffer from this problem nor should our shepherds. Years of "Jesus loves you" "I'm OK, you're OK" theology has lead to the mess we're currently in. "Catholics" that are indistinguishable from many atheists and pagans in mind and deed. Yes Jesus loves us, but like any loving parent would do, he's laid down some ground rules for us to follow. We've pretty much tossed the rule book.
    As we see in the US right now, the horse has left the barn. Years of dancing around, avoiding or flat out rejecting the issue of contraception and abortion from the pulpit has left the catholic bishops standing practically alone to fight the governments efforts to force the church to fund sin. Polls show the majority of US Catholics think its a wonderful idea that they pay for contraception and abortifacients. The bishops have more allies in evangelical protestant denominations than Catholic. Only through a return to boldly preaching the gospel will we be able to save the sinking ship.

    Cheers
    Paul

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  4. Paul & Lisa: While I am not always comfortable with the way that Michael Voris presents or frames an issue, (he suffers from a certain lack of charity when he condemns those who don't accept his conclusions) I fail to see why the Archdiocese has moved against his internet project. It seems to me that if the Vatican is striving to bring the SPXS back into the Church that it would make no sense to try to suppress a voice that offers a similar conservative perspective.

    There must be more to this than is currently known in the public forum. Just as with the 'Black Sheepdog affair', it is possible that other developments may have occurred behind the scenes that have yet to be revealed. If not, then this does seem to be a ham-handed and mistaken initiative on the part of the Detroit Archdiocese.

    Fr. Tim

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    Replies
    1. Hi Fr. Tim

      I agree with your assessment on the lack of charity in some of his talks. That is why I think he will have limited successful convincing someone from outside the faith to come home to the church. He would come across as confrontational to outsiders and that has a tendency to put them on the defensive rather than listen to you.
      That said, I think Christ himself may have come off as uncharitable on several occasions. Tipping money changers tables and chasing them out of the temple with a cord, referring to people as vipers, saying to Peter "get behind me Satan". How many times did his preaching end with people gathering stones to throw at him or walking away angry and dismissive? I'm not totally convinced the soft approach is the only one.
      Maybe there is some hidden scandal we're not hearing about as in the Corapi situation. The curious thing however is the fact that many of the groups and "catholic" media outlets I've sited above are heretical and proud of it. No secret investigations required, just visit their web pages and you have all the evidence you need to issue a recall on the use of the word Catholic in their names. Thats never happened.

      Cheers
      Paul

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    2. Paul: Agreed on all points. I failed to say that I agree that if Michael Voris cannot use the name Catholic, then these other groups should be sanctioned in like fashion.

      Fr. Tim

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    3. Mr Moyle: I just saw a headline in the States which says the Bully Pulpit is again being used by the Bishops of the Catholic Church in the States. Perhaps you would wish to rethink your previos posts on the matter.

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    4. Anon: Pardon? From which deep field are you coming from with this comment? Where in this thread do you find me speaking about using the Bully Pulpit?

      Fr. Tim

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    5. Sorry, I thought it was you, but it was your partner, Mr. Ballard, I think who was upset about the use of bully pulpit last week, and , I think you inserted yourself into the dialogue, But, I am sure you can pass this on , using the quick link you have with your buddy.

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    6. Anon: No problem. Aside from this blog (and formerly on Sylvia's Site) is the only quick link between us. You can reach him as quickly and efficiently as I can by posting something here for him. RSS feeds are wonderful things. Anyone can be immediately notified by email or through a Reader whenever comments are posted. That's how I monitored (and still do) her site for comments and postings. My reader (Google) works off my computer and smart phone so I get a message whenever something goes up there (and lots of other sites as well).

      Technology can be a wonderful thing.

      Fr. Tim

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  5. I think it would be hypocritical if RealCatholicTv can't use the name catholic for heretical teaching or presenting the faith in error while these other organizations do it openly. As you say, there may be more to this but the Dioceses doesn't seem to want to offer an explanation at this point.

    Cheers
    Paul

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  6. Hi Fr. Tim

    Your description of Voris as a "conservative" catholic got me thinking. Is there really such thing as a legitimate Catholic that is liberal given our western understanding of liberal? Supporting issues like abortion, birth control, gay marriage, married clergy, women clergy, fornication etc etc. They call their media outlet REAL Catholic TV and I think thats the best description of what they are trying to present. Most everything they present is in strict accord with the teachings of the Holy Father and the magisterial teachings of the church. I think EWTN would be another example of media outlet trying to present REAL Catholicism to the world. Branding them as Conservative almost makes it sound like there are different flavours of truth to choose from in Christ's church, liberal vanilla or conservative chocolate.
    There can be only one truth. As Catholics we believe, or at least we should, that Christ continues to speak that truth through his representative on earth and the Magisterial teaching authority of the church. If someone rejects or outright rebels against "REAL" catholicism (pope approved and magisterial), how can that flavour of catholicism be legitimate?

    Cheers
    Paul

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    Replies
    1. Paul: It cannot. It is not legitimate.

      However, the boundaries or understanding of what these Catholic teachings actually mean in today's society is where things get confusing. Michael Voris was conservative in the manner in which he interpreted orthodoxy. By this I mean his heurementic key lies between Trent and up to but not including Vatican II. A liberal when speak only of the 'spirit' of VII, probably without actually reading the documents that came from the Council. I think both have the merits and deficiencies - and neither is sufficient for me. I tend to try to take the most 'catholic' (aka 'universal') approach and use scripture, early Church Fathers, ecumenical councils, with particular attention to current Papal and Magisterial teachings as a series of lenses by which to discern what is orthodox (ressourcement) and how to express it using the post-modern lexicon (aggiornamento).

      Fr. Tim

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  7. Hi Fr. Tim

    I understand you now. Come to think of it, I get the sense Michael doesn't think too much of things like the Charismatic Renewal which is a recent phenomena despite JP2 and Benedict have expressed support for it. Thanks for the post.

    Paul

    ReplyDelete

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