21 May, 2012

How Not to Prevent AIDS

Martin: I don't mean to impose on your time, but is this research valid? I'm not familiar with any of the sources but thought that you might be and could give it a quick look and comment.

How Not to Prevent AIDS

38 comments:

  1. Now Tim, do you actually believe Martin will provide an unbiased and factual approach to this issue?

    Aids, according to the gay community, can't possibly have anything to do with promiscuity, 'glory holes' and bathhouses! It is spread by a deep cosmic force from outside our galaxy - for that reason lets all put on the red ribbon and lament "when oh when will this horrible disease subside".

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    1. Tim Dooling21 May, 2012

      REally, Father Moyle, why does it automatically come into your head to ask Martin for this or that?
      You claim he is a friend ! Would a friend really be soooo opposed to what you believe and preach? Do you not realize you are being used by Martin?
      For the LOVE OF GOD open your eyes , ears, and heart to the Sared Heart of JESUS for your direction and source of TRUTH. You will never get that kind of truth from Martin- he is incapable of delivering it.

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    2. Steve: Should he choose to comment, his argument and evidence will be exemplary. It isn't necessary to agree with his conclusions, but everything that he has offered here as argument has been backed up with solid references. His 'Gentle Reader' Series is something that I very proud to have published on this blog.

      May I suggest that you are reading him wrong? He demands nothing more than the full respect that is due under law to everyone else in the land. He politely but forcefully speaks against voices that he sincerely believes threaten the rights of the gay community.

      It is the challenge of the Church to find ways to express its legitimate rights and Christian proposition as to the best way to organize our society without violating their human and civil rights. As Canadian Catholics, I think we suffer the extra obligation as well of doing this in a polite and civil manner as befits our national character.

      Martin has never once promoted promiscuity, 'glory holes' and bathhouses. In fact I have heard him speak of the benefits of a committed relationship. And while I do not accept that gay sex can ever be faithfully reconciled with Christian teachings, is it any worse than the adultery and fornication of straight couples? If they have the right to 'swing, switch and swap' under the civil law without prohibition, why should the gay community be denied the same 'right'? If society and culture allows and even sensationalize the dalliances of of celebrity couples like Brangelino et al, why should gays be denied the right to be as licentious as they want?

      Again I state that I do not countenance either form of behavior... but I say so as a priest. I am speaking about the judgment that is to come that eventually awaits us all. But there exists no right which allows me as a priest to expect the State to deny what are held to be basic human rights from one group of consenting adults that is granted to others. To do so is clearly not in keeping with our understanding of the dignity of the human person and their liberty to believe and live as they choose, so long as they are not harming others with consenting partners.

      What Trudeau said in the 60's is still true today: the State has no place in the bedrooms of the nation. He wasn't only referring to straight couples in sacramental marriages who refrain from using contraception whenever they have sex.

      He does not expect you or I to agree with his choices in life. He does not demand that we agree with him in his atheism. (agnosticism?) He doesn't tell me how to believe... I don't tell him how to live. When it comes to our theology on the subject, he understands it as well as you or I! That was the case 20+ years ago. It's still the case now.

      Tim

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    3. Tim: Fact is fact and Martin has studied these issues. He is expert on the subject as am academic field of study. He has a special interest in the evidence presented by those who oppose his views. Just as if I wanted advice on building a house I would ask a carpenter, when I want to know if statistics and studies done by reputable sources. There's a lot of stuff that tries to pass as science these days that fail to meet the mark by a big margin. Martin is the expert I can reliably turn to if I want to know if this is a legitimate social survey from a reputable source. If he were a mechanic, should I refrain from asking him how to fix my car because he's a gay atheist? It is not improper to ask his understanding on these questions.

      I appreciate your point of view, but may I suggest you read my latest message to Fr. Steve if you want to understand what I am saying in its proper perspective. I fail to see how one group in society can be denied something that others are permitted to have an obscene degree of licentious. I am addressing here specifically the law of the land. My metier is to speak of the law of God. I am doing nothing wrong, improper or immoral.

      This place is not a blog where I expect to sing to the choir. This is a place where I expect to meet, debate, and explore issues with others with different points of view. It's intended as a place 'where the rubber hits the road'. I trust that any Catholic who would bother to invest the time to peruse this blog are sufficiently capable of discerning right from wrong without needing me to tell them. If all we do is speak to ourselves, soon we'll find ourselves shut out of the public square. People will think we're nuts!

      There are excellent blogs (many listed in the links column) which are catechetical and promote only the Catholic position. This is a different type of blog. It's just as valid and proper.

      Fr. Tim

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    4. Tim Dooling21 May, 2012

      Father Moyle: Thou art a ¨Priest in the Order of Malchesidech- forever.
      When you were Ordained, you committed yourself to follow the teachings of the Magesterium of the Catholic Church.
      Nowhere or notime since were you told you are exempt from that committment.
      As far as I know, GOD does not change ! HE told us homosexuality was a grave sin.
      Your friend Martin is in opposition to that Bible statement. You are bound by it !
      This continual wondering and wandering of his mind is not within your purview to judge as being sound! If it differs with what our Church teaches, then it is NOT sound.
      I do not have all of the technical terms you may use to refute what I say, but, I have my TRUTH in the Bible !
      It is not enough to be a Priest on Sunday, or once a year to attend the March for Life, and then go wandering off on these tangents.
      You became a Priest to teach and preach Jesus Christ, and HIM Risen. There is no other TRUTH than that which comes from HIM.
      It is my understanding, with advice from my Spiritual Director, Fr. Pelton, whom you indicated before you admire and respect, that this understanding of the Priesthood is correct.
      Bishop Windle and I discussed this before you were ordained. Same understanding.
      We are not Canadian Catholics, we are ROMAN CATHOLICS. It is through this Church, and my feeble attempts, that I live, and breath, and have my being by the Death, Ressurection, and Grace of Jesus Christ passed on to me through the Holy Spirit !
      Outside of parsing some of my words, I do not see where you may disagree with this and still claim to be a Priest of the Holy Roman Catholic Church.
      I pray for Priets many times a day- but, I do not pray for dissident Priests- they are following a different Master.

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    5. Tim Dooling - "Would a friend really be soooo opposed to what you believe and preach?" Jesus call the sinners, the prostitutes and the tax collectors friends. Was he being used as well? Fr. Tim should be commended for both holding firm to his beliefs, yet at the same time demonstrating the pastoral openness that's so needed in this world and lacking, I'm afraid in much religion today.

      Rationalist1

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    6. Tim Dooling22 May, 2012

      Rationalist, do you know the story of the life of JESUS?
      Do you know in what era it occured on Earth?
      JESUS was talking with and about people who had not YET heard the GOOD NEWS !
      HE was calling all friends because they had not YET been converted.
      Time and circumstances, and fact, are still important - you only obfusicate when you ignore them.

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    7. Tim Dooling - I though Jesus was the good news and that's why he talked to sinners. Fr. Tim acting in persona Christi is merely carrying on his mission. And if I remember my New Testament, Jesus' actions did not please the religious people of his time either.

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  2. Anonymous22 May, 2012

    You say Martin is an expert. I haven't a clue what qualifies him as such but we'll take it you know something we don't. With all due respect, he's as predictable as asking a GM car salesman what he thinks of a Dodge.
    Regarding Fr. Steven's comment. I think that its just some Rubber hitting the Road and I agree with his observation. We've had a cure for AIDS and just about every other STD since they began. Red ribbons on Hollywood celebrity dinner jackets not withstanding. Its God's plan for human sexuality. Venture away from that and you make yourself vulnerable to a world of hurt. Thats the message that needs to get out but we prefer patching holes on the sinking ship with rubbers, antibiotics, drugs, hormones, surgeries and abortions rather than adhere to the wisdom of bronze age mystics in scripture as they're often described.

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  3. Fr. Tim, I appreciate that you have a certain respect or even an 'admiratio' (to quote a now deceased PH of our diocese) for our former seminary mate, however Tim does remind us of a certain truth here, which cannot be ignored: these people are not our friends. They do not believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, they have no use for the Roman Catholic Church or most anything else Christian.

    I am very hesitant to drape anyone in a garment called 'expert'.

    Having visited a variety of websites with respect to current debates, there is a clear strategy at work, along with the accompanying talking points. This is, as it were, the 'win the hearts and minds phase' at every level, including this sphere, the entertainment world and the media as a whole. While the tenacity is admirable, the 'dogma' being brought forward is not a part of our life as Christians nor ours as Roman Catholics.

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    1. Tim Dooling22 May, 2012

      Father Moyle: Judas was thought by his cohorts to be a friend of JESUS.
      Jesus KNEW he was not his friend!
      Martin has no interest other than trying to justify his beliefs, including his lifestyle.
      Your training to be a Social Worker is getting in the way of your being a true Priest in the Roman Catholic Church. You have a decision to make- are you that Priest, or have you reverted to being a Social Worker?

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    3. Tim: 1) Judas denied the truth that walked beside him for three years because he was pursing a different agenda. He was, after all, a zealot. I am turning to a person who has studied this issue in institutions of higher learning and is lay expert in the field. Admittedly he does something else for a living, but that doesn't preclude the fact that he knows more about the subject than anyone else I know. You, or anyone else is free to do the research and support or refute the evidence that the source document provides. Given that I'm in the midst of a flurry of four funerals this week and haven't got the time. That's why I asked Martin about this.

      2) I have never once questioned or challenged Church teaching on this subject. Homosexual acts cannot be reconciled with Christian morality. I accept this. I believe it to be true. BUT... that does not mean that I believe that society should oppress one group of people in society for something that others are free to do with impunity.

      3) The is NOTHING contradictory between the knowledge and interests I possess as a social worker and my role as a priest. To imply that there is speaks either to a bigotry on your past against mental health professionals or a profound ignorance about what they do. Neither is worthy of someone who claims to be able to speak for the faith. It's something you should perhaps discuss with your confessor or spiritual director.

      4) Martin offers cogent, referenced and researched sources that come from accredited journals and sources. If they make the case that the various fears and allegations about gay relationships harming society are false, then that's the case that the Church needs to face. What is the value in promoting a lie in the cause of furthering a truth? The Church speaks about the morality, the sinfulness of an act. It need not use false propaganda to make its case in trying to influence the civil law of the land. Yes... Martin has an agenda... it's discovering and promoting the truth. I'm trying to do the same. How about you? Do you think it better to live in ignorance?

      If all you can do is hurl insults at people who offer different opinions than you... you will never change anyone's mind. You most certainly will fail to change their hearts or win their souls for Christ. I would appreciate it if you would please consider this before you post in the future.

      Fr. Tim

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    4. Tim Dooling22 May, 2012

      Father, your first sentence about Judas makes the point- the agenda one is pursuing.
      Martin may quote from self-serving studies- Satan can and has quoted from the Bible.

      You earlier refferred to Trudeau. It is now evident he really was a traitor to the TRUTH. Just one more Jesuit-trained dissident Catholic. The Charter of Rights and Freedoms is anything but that.
      It skewed the long-held and proven rights and freedoms so that every dissident group now has more rights than the majority.
      If you do not believe that, tell me where the Majority gets the right to funding for a Straight Parade Day, or Federal funding for the March for Life.
      It is time to stop the fantasy search.

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    5. Tim: Ask him an appropriate or civil question and I'm certain Rationalist will answer you. But let me save him the trouble.

      Rationalist is a regular poster on the Holy Post blog (the National Post online edition's religion blog,) and has demonstrated a knowledge of the Christian proposition in general and Catholic teaching in specific that rivals yours or mine. What he doesn't have is belief.

      PLEASE, PLEASE REMEMBER that belief is a gift. We can comprehend the logic and evidence that supports our personal assent to the teachings of the Catholic Church, but it takes a gift from God to 'bring us across the sea of doubt' which permits us to believe in God. Not everyone possesses such a gift.

      Next, NO ONE BUT GOD ALONE can presume to know the state of another's soul before God anymore than they could know yours. Salvation is HIS gift... not yours! You cannot make a decision that is way outside your capacity. YOU PRESUME TOO MUCH upon the province of God to think you can know how Martin or I would be judged. 'Judge not lest you be judged': Does that ring a bell with you. I'll be happy to provide the scripture notations if you want help in looking up what Jesus taught on the subject. You may need a refresher course on the subject.

      Finally, INSULTING their intelligence and YELLING at people will not make it any easier for those who have been unable in life to accept this gift in their lives. They won't be able to hear that quiet voice of divine assurance over all your shouting!

      Great people debate ideas... Good people debate actions... Small people discuss people. Lift your focus away from the people who blog here and show that you are at least 'good' enough to keep up with the rest of those who write and comment here.

      Fr. Tim

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    6. I remembered that last quote wrong. Good people debate 'events', not actions/

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    7. Tim Dooling22 May, 2012

      Father, no one among us is good. Jesus said that !
      True, Faith is a gift, one we should not waste or allow to lay dormant. Like the talents the master passed to the three, 10, 5 and 1. The 1 did not trust, so he did nothing for it to flower.
      If your Ministry is not sufficient for your energies, perhaps they would be better used trying to explore the Trinity, or the Sacred Heart, or the Immaculate Conception. And finally, there is always the Love and the Mercy of God to consider.
      Maybe you do not shout, but you sure try to trumpet the greatness of Martin.

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    8. Tim: Where have I failed to meet the needs and obligations of my ministry? I respond to the bell every time it calls and no one is complaining about my ministrations or lack thereof except you who don't live any where near to me.

      I defend Martin as I would defend any friend. I considered him so for the years we lived in the same group and studied in the same classes in the Seminary. I still believe him to be so today. He has done nothing to harm me in any way and I don't demand that all my friends live in accordance with my religious beliefs. He is a GOOD person. This I can state with 100% certainty. Even if I thought his way of life will lead him to perdition with your evident certainty that you don't think him worth the effort to talk to him civilly - he would still be my friend. I do not confuse the sin with the sinner.

      Hopefully, and I pray for the last time, let me tell you once again: Martin comprehends the Catholic faith better than you do. He is better read and educated on the subject than 99% of Catholics today. He's completed many courses at a graduate level in theology and philosophy. He is capable of besting you in any contest regarding what the Church teaches. He also knows that I, unlike him, am still graced with both the comprehension and faith to sustain an active and productive ministry both in my parish and online. He doesn't hold that against me either. I need not pummel him with scripture and testimony. He knows that I continue to live and believe. I don't need to tell him over and over again.

      You know nothing at all about any private conversations we have shared over the years. Your assumption that I somehow failed to express my faith to him or that I engaging in some sort of immature 'explorations' of alternate sexualities is a personal insult to me. Until such time as you offer an apology and a retraction of your vile insinuations about me, I will post no further comments from you.

      GET THIS THROUGH YOUR HEAD. He understands. He does not believe. He does not possess the gift of faith. Irrespective of what you believe, this does not make him a bad person and deserving of being kicked to the curb. If this offends you... don't visit here. You won't be missed. There are lots of people who conduct themselves with civility in openly searching for truth. If you think that you already know everything, this is not the place for you. Clearly we're not worthy of sharing in your presence. I recommend that you head off to the closest Catholic Church and take a statue down from its pedestal and stand there in its place. Imagine how impressed people will be when they discover that you know and believe more than any one else and that you can read human souls. Hell, you're probably a modern day Curé d'Ars!!! Right?

      Fr. Tim

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    9. Mark O'Neil22 May, 2012

      This is for Father Moyle-
      I read the exchange between the 3 of you today, and it leaves me shocked.
      Why all the fuss about homosexuals on this blog?
      It used to be about other matters, but it seems the homo game has taken over.
      Why is martin blogging on a Catholic site? He admits he is homo, and yet you say he is your great friend. What is going on?

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    10. Mark; I honestly don't understand why this particular sh*tstorm erupted. I posted an artcle claiming to provide statistical evidence that gays were a danger to societyand should be penned up in camps behind electric fencing.... and BOOM! the crap hit the fan and all hell broke loose.

      It's something that happens when a former classmate from my seminary days who has lost his faith and publicly identifies as being gay posts comments that challenge columns and post I write or cross-post to on other sites which he sees as propaganda. I am defending his right to civilly and intelligently make his case without being insulted.

      It will come to an end at this point as I won't publish any comments that are nothing more than thinly veiled personal attacks (of which Martin, my gay friend from years past has not once offered in the face of considerable provocation). I believe that will move the focus of comments off of this subject. Since the gay issue is not given undue focus within the offerings of material I offerr on the blog (a point you note yourself), I simply ask you to consider this recent patch of commentary a failure to sufficiently moderate offerings on my part. My only excuse is that I presumed too much of the character of one poster here and didn't notice it and did not expect this manure from him.

      Fr. Tim

      (p.s. I come to this conclusion on the basis of both his comments and private emails he has sent to me. )

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    11. Mark O"Neil23 May, 2012

      Fr. Moyle: Your reply explains nothing other than your editing problems.
      What about your own contributions?
      You were not exactly a shining example of a Priest.
      You seem to be more interested in protecting your homo friend than in dealing with his wrongness.
      A family friend who is a farmer has a saying- if you sleep with the pigs long eneough you will smell like one.
      Not a good image for a Priest in Pembroke Diocese after all the Priests who have been outed, and a couple more to come, I am told.

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    12. Mark: 1) I am not more interested in protecting my 'homo friend'. I am defending a friend. You should learn the difference. He is not a sexuality. He is a person. He deserves respect even if people don't agree with his positions. 2) I would do the same for you, even though your last comment (which very inappropriately calls Martin a 'pig') demonstrates that it is something that you don't deserve. 3) We have had three priests revealed out of the hundred or so priests that have served over the past 50 years in our diocese. That hardly qualifies as 'all the priests who have been outed'. If there are more, then let them be exposed as well. NO ONE who abuses or habitually violates his religious vow of celibacy (or obedience for that matter) should continue to serve as a priest in this Diocese or elsewhere.

      If what you read here leads you to post such hateful and insulting commentary, please don't bother posting or visiting this site. It is intended as a place for intelligent discussion... not the venom of bigots and school yard bullies as you appear to be.

      Fr. Tim

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    13. P.S. If expecting that people can take a 'high road' in debating these topics is characteristic of the priests of the Pembroke Diocese - and I believe it is - then I am happy to put my comments defending Martin forward as an example of the goodness and charity of the presbyterate in this corner of the Catholic world.

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    14. Bonnie K. from Pembroke23 May, 2012

      Mark O'Neil quoted:
      "Not a good image for a Priest in Pembroke Diocese after all the Priests who have been outed, and a couple more to come, I am told."

      What is Mark talking about? Perhaps a witch hunt for gay priests in the Pembroke Diocese?

      It's bad for priests especially in Pembroke area that are living through difficult times with these scandals.
      Now it seems he's going to use this suppose gay priest issue as an excuse for his uncharitable behavior remarks; such as using the phrase 'protecting your homo friend'.

      A concern of mine. This comes from a friend that works in the funeral business. Obviously, has close contact with all priests.
      One priest has a history of drinking problems but got help long ago and is good.
      This friend from that funeral business (doesn't know about this priest drinking past) said 'Father, sure likes his Crown Royal.'
      This is not a good sign about this one priest if it is true.

      These priests are human and are under more stress than ever. It's not hard to believe some of these priests will only take so much pressure, reach a breaking point and fall back on bad destructive habits like drinking, over-eating and that may also include for some priests engaging in some risky sexual behavior.

      I'm saying, do try to easy the burden of these priests instead of putting more unrealistic pressures on them.

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    15. Well Tim you finally made it into the big times. You got the smell you deserve.
      If it walks like a duck............

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  4. Hi Fr. Tim!

    I could take some time to explore someone's theology or speak about objective or subjective truth.

    Having returned from a home where two children and a husband mourn the sudden death of a 43 year old mother - the dear Lord has reminded me of the place where my energies should be applied.

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    1. Steve: I spent the weekend with a grieving mother who lost her only son. I understand very well the differences between subjective and objective truth for one cannot exist in opposition to the other and still be 'true'. I also understand the priority we both have in ministering to broken people. If those who promote a lifestyle are sinners and in need of healing as the Church teaches, then they are as broken as the grieving families that we both are serving right now. We can only help either of them by bringing them the comfort of our faith in the promise of Christ that he came to save all of us. I will not stop engaging, reaching out to, debating or arguing with them so long as they or I have breath so long as folks like Martin are willing to join me.

      I would THINK you would do the same.

      You know Martin. You studied with him for years. You know that he seriously searched to hear God's voice and for that time, he did. He no longer does. I am as grieved at the death of his belief as I am in walking with any family through the dark days of grief and bereavement. I most certainly do not condemn him for living life in a different manner than what the Church teaches.

      I KNOW you would feel the same.

      I spent those same years with you and I know that you are both a good person, priest, and judge of character. You thought him a good man then. He still is today.

      What you and Tim are suggesting will never accomplish this end if you fail to engage those who disagree with us. You are condemning them to eternal damnation and writing them off as a lost cause to be ignored because they do not now hold the gift of faith. That is not the Christian way.

      Tim

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    2. Tim: my intent in revealing this was not to make a direct or even indirect point to Martin or anyone else. I do not agree with his positions but I do not judge him. That's God's department. I do not judge his heart, discernment, life choices, nor do I condemn him. Tim's words are his not mine. If you dislike something I have shared, please point it out to me.

      ............I was simply stating just a basic fact, as an aside, as to how certain life events for people puts things into context for me. That's all. Nothing nefarious.

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    3. Steve: As I wrote, I assumed as much because if I don't know after five years of living and studying together, followed by 23 years of ministry that you possessed a good heart and mind, I would be an idiot. Thanks for clarifying and proving that I'm not.

      Tim

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  5. Anonymous22 May, 2012

    Hi Tim,

    Some of your readers have questioned whether or not I have any “expertise” in the areas of HIV/AIDS or the LGBT community in general. I do not have any such “expertise”. My professional accreditations, education, and training are all in fields that have nothing to do whatsoever with public health, medicine, or the social sciences. I am a layperson in all of these areas.

    Some of your readers have questioned whether a blog such as yours has any legitimate role in inviting voices such as mine into the conversation. I think you have ably made the case that your vision for your blog has room for such alternative voices. I appreciate your hospitality, but I am a guest here and I will take my cues from the host.

    One passage in the article that troubled me was the following statement:

    “Why is this (the continuation of high infection rates among Men having sex with Men) happening when HIV is a totally preventable infection? Because gay AIDS activists have systematically opposed every proven strategy for the control of a sexually transmitted disease; namely: routine mandatory testing of those at high risk, contact tracing, partner notification, closing of venues where the disease is known to spread, and prosecution of those who, having been informed they are infected, infect others or have sex with others without revealing their HIV status.”

    Firstly, the LGBT community is not a cohesive entity with a centralized command and control. The issues of HIV disclosure, and the law have all been widely debated within the community with a spectrum of conclusions.

    Having said that, in Canada and in Ontario our public health policy requires mandatory reporting and partner notification of all persons newly diagnosed with HIV /AIDS. The same protocols are followed for HIV/AIDS as with all other STIs. It has never been otherwise since HIV/AIDS was discovered in the 1980’s. To the extent that any LGBT organization may have argued for the removal of such protocols and/or laws – they have been spectacularly unsuccessful in achieving such an outcome. Therefore, it is silly to claim that such advocacy is has had any impact on infection rates. In fact, two of the most prominent HIV/AIDS organizations in Canada (People with AIDS Foundation and the AIDS Committee of Toronto) advocate personal responsibility, regular testing, the need for treatment adherence, and warn of the legal consequences of not informing sexual partners of one’s HIV status. They have been at the forefront of HIV/AIDS education and prevention.

    Continued...Part 2

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  6. Anonymous22 May, 2012

    Continued...

    The article I think tries to blame the LGBT community for its experience with HIV/AIDS. To the extent that some individuals still engage in reckless sexual behaviour, then I believe that the criticism is valid. Nevertheless, most epidemiologists would point out that a relatively small, closed population such as the LGBT community or intravenous drug users naturally lends itself to the spread of a disease such as HIV/AIDS.

    I know that some of your readers believe that the existence of HIV/AIDS is a manifestation of God’s will pointing out the wrongness of homosexuality and/or sexual promiscuity. Leaving aside the question of God’s existence, I simply note three things:

    • HIV/AIDS outside of the West is predominately a heterosexual disease;
    • HIV/AIDS has a disproportionately lower impact on the lesbian population (lower than the incidence among heterosexuals);
    • Many other diseases afflict people but carry no implied judgment that the afflicted are somehow guilty of attracting God’s disfavour or wrath. So why the special reasoning about HIV/AIDS?

    Do I think known homosexuals should be routinely rounded up for “mandatory testing” and segregation? If the question was asked about any other group, I think most folks would see this as an affront to their fundamental liberty. Should all Jews be rounded up and forced to test for Tay-Sachs Syndrome and prevented from marriage or conception? Should all people at risk of passing on Cystic Fibrosis be rounded up, tested and prevented from marriage or conception? Should all blacks be rounded up and tested for sickle cell anemia and prevented from marriage or conception? Why the special rules for LGBT folks? Should lesbians be excluded?

    Do I think that all bathhouses ought to be closed down to prevent the spread of HIV/AIDS and other STIs? Only if the same prohibitions are extended to all other heterosexual hotspots (e.g. straight sex clubs, bawdy houses, and swinger’s clubs).

    Do I think that stable monogamous relationships are better than promiscuous relationships? For me – yes. For others, I will let them decide for themselves, and if they wish to engage in promiscuous behaviour, then I would urge them to act responsibly by practicing safer sex and always disclose their HIV and/or STI status to their potential partners.

    Cheers…Martin

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    1. Martin: You have researched the subject of grey propaganda and educated yourself on the subject. The question I was asking you is if this qualified as such an item. I wasn't trying to claim you were a professional in the field. In fact I clearly stated that you weren't.

      I appreciate too that as a someone living a gay lifestyle you would be as au courant as possible on the subject of HIV/AIDS. It would be something that you would explore with the same diligence as you did 20+ years ago when you were considering a vocation to the priesthood... perhaps more so given the the consequences of AIDS is lived out in this existence whereas payment for endangering our eternal soul will come in the next.

      Again, much like the Sebelius debate in the States, it seems some people object if you are even allowed the opportunity to speak your mind on a Catholic blog. That's hard for me to fathom. You wouldn't ever be invited to speak from my pulpit to argue your case. That would be wholly inappropriate. But engaging in discussion on blog is a LONG, LONG WAY distant from that forum.

      You will always be welcome to post or publish here as is anyone else of good heart and mind.

      Tim

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    2. Tim Dooling22 May, 2012

      And the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

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    3. Tim Dooling - As for me I'm going down the road with good intentions. You can opt to travel the bad intentions route if you wish.

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    4. Anonymous22 May, 2012

      A common profile of an AIDS death, World wide, is that of a monogamous, married woman of childbearing age, who does not work outside the home. She is often preceded in death by one or more of her children, who also die of AIDS.

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  7. Anonymous - would you like to present some stats to support this conclusion? The stats, at least for Canada do NOT reflect your talking points.

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  8. Father Tim: naturally this is your blog and you can manage it as you see fit.

    I think it is a terrible mistake to block anyone from posting. This threat to Tim Dooling resembles something that another lady who runs a blog would do.

    Tim is at least posting under his full name as I am.

    I repeat, your admiratio concerning Martin is interesting and admirable I suppose, but if this is a forum to share ideas, how you feel about him or anyone, how long you have known him or anyone, is not particularly relevant. You risk appearing to pander to a single contributor at the expense of the rest.

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  9. Anonymous22 May, 2012

    Certainly this is true when Africa is brought into the picture. Sure the woman is monogamous, unfortunately she nor her children are immune from the adverse affects of the sexual exploits of their adulterous husbands. Again, if the husbands of these poor women stayed true to their wives, the AIDS virus wouldn't be a thought unless they liked shooting up drugs and swapping needles. Unfortunately these men choose to roll the dice for sexual gratification and sickness and death often follow and innocent lives are taken as a result.

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